This is a bit out of hand. Lets remember that the question we are trying to answer hear is did Jeramy spawn-kill or did he not. To get something out there the Falcon squad does not take any actions against some one for breaking the rules unless we have proof of it. We will not do anything against them unless we are 100% sure they did it.

If we have any doubt that they may have not done it then no actions will be taken against them. They will get a warning that sounds something like this --> Hey we do not know if you did this or not but if you did do it then you need to stop it because it is against our rules and if you are chat doing it in a screen shot then the hammer will fall on your back. Something like that is said.

If you can get us a screen shot of it then we will take the actions to punish them for what they did. But until we get that screen shot then nothing will be done and we will defend them because we know them like friends and brothers and never find our selves being lied to by them. Sorry if you all disagree with this system but we do not want to take the chance of punishing some one for something they did not do. We have failed with things like this in the past and that is why we now require proof of it before we take action.

On another end why we will not just go off of your word. Its not that we do not trust you or that we dislike you. We consider the Misfits as one of our closest squadrons that we can get along with the best because we have very similar ideals. Why we do not just go off of it is because the definition of camping and spawn killing varies from person to person and squadron to squadron. I have been in games vs misfits were I have gone in bombed and then went to fly away and found my self being shot at. So I turned around and went into a dogfight with them that led back to over there base and we had some big massive dogfight going on because of this. I was to busy trying to stay alive to spawn kill anyone and yet I had misfit pilots telling me I was spawn killing and that I was an unhonorable camper. I got the whole thing cleared up in that game with those guys though after expelling how I was going to leave right after I bombed but had pilots dropping and coming after me shooting and trying to kill me on my return trip.

But it is things like that where we will not take just the word from some one that one of our guys is spawn killing. I did not spawn kill in that instance but I was accused of it. I was also accused of camping which I was but they brought that upon them selves by trying to kill me when I was flying away form there base. Instead of letting me go they dragged me into a dogfight that led me back to their base.

Now back to the interpretation of a spawn kill. Our squads rule on spawn killing is this --->
8: Do not spawn-kill what so ever. Once they fire or 4 seconds have passed you may shoot them. Killing planes on a runway with a tank is spawn-killing don't do it.

Looking at this rule now I see some flaws in it where it can be misinterpreted. It says once they fire or 4 seconds has passed then you may kill them. The once 4 seconds has passed part is not very details. Is it 4 seconds after they have spawned or is it 4 seconds after they start the engine. It could be even 4 seconds after they have gotten airborne or their wheels are no longer touching the runway. Currently with the state of what this rule is written out all 3 of those 4 seconds rules would not neciarcerly break the rule. (We will have to rewrite that to be more specific) As you can see that can be easily misinterpreted.


Now on another note you guys are questioning how much skill it takes to spawn kill and camp. Camping takes the most skill because once some one is up and is half way through a turn there plane is now going full speed and you have to out turn them in a dogfight. When some one is camping they are only camping and wining at it because they are the best dogfighter and turn fighter there.

Spawn killing can also be difficult. Try and take one guy and try to spawn kill 4 guys at once. Eventually one is going to get up and you will have to deal with him and while you deal with him the rest will get up and then it becomes a dogfight over there base or what you call as camping. When you are spawn killing 4 guys you really are only spawn killing 1 or 2 of them each time because they other guys if they are smart should be off the runway and already starting to make a turn. Its been 2 years since i have done this but I am pretty sure that now days it is a hell of a lot harder than it was two years ago.

|111th| Von Pay wrote:

[M]bzerkbzerk wrote: It takes no skill to orbit behind ones base and wait. One player defending against 5, no inbound bombers and you consider it a skill.

We win, we lose, but I do not camp, campers you shall be, the skill you have earned and now we all know how you feel.

So proud you are that you would bite your own noses off to save face and sadly the only news on this thread as of late is this.

Hey shhhh! It's an open secret that it needs skills to counterattack a camper. You always have the chance to fight back.

So, fight back like a man. Quit whining.

Cannot fight back? Improve your skill. Quit whining.

Cannot improve your skill? Leave the game. Quit whining.

If you want to keep whining, go post where whiners belong to. No drama here. Don't understand? Read it again.

Just to toss out another thing on this post. Once you find out your way to counter attack and that is by getting in the air you then need to have the skill to actually out dogfight that player. You get up and get in a turn fight with them and lose don’t cry about it because that guy did just beat you because he had more skill than you in a turn fight.

Well it looks like the three days are up! See the link above for my conclusion on the matter. Ghost it was a commendable effort to tear apart the Falcon Squadron by attacking your former squad and former squadmates. I really like how it showed your true values, morals, and complete lack of honour. Although, now I suppose we can now add your newfound lack of credibility to the list! Have a wonderful day!

So you have "pictures" of this but you're not putting them up? I'm gonna come out and call your bluff Ghost.... But I will apoligize if I'm proven wrong.. But as of right now there is NO evidence (pictures wise) to back up what you are saying.... And I understand that you are busy so I will wait....

Well us Falcons are solid and strong...no tearing apart within Falcons.

OutlawofTorn87 wrote:

Well it looks like the three days are up! See the link above for my conclusion on the matter. Ghost it was a commendable effort to tear apart the Falcon Squadron by attacking your former squad and former squadmates. I really like how it showed your true values, morals, and complete lack of honour. Although, now I suppose we can now add your newfound lack of credibility to the list! Have a wonderful day!

Lol you want to call me a liar? Please do what ever it is you want to do! Im not on any ones time limit! When im done doing my personal business and have time to really look. Then i will send them to Von! I refuse to be rushed by any one. So if you think by calling me a liar after 3 days is the right thing to do, then by all means toot your little horn!

Now here is a question for you! If and when i provide proof, lets say in a week or a month from now, would i still be considered a liar?
Food for thought!

Now lets get this straight, im not attacking the whole squad! Im just throwing out those incidents with Guardian! Learn the difference on what im doing before you type your bs and accusations OutlawofTorn. Truth is a fickel thing, some read it and say what an a##hole, and others will say thats correct. Then those simple minded people like you read more into something that was never brought up!

Now, am i trying to rip the Falcons apart? Hell no! Was never my intentions. You want to accuse of this bs? On what what proof do you have this on? I have never said a bad thing about the Falcons. This is the only thing i have ever said about any Falcon, was that Guardian was camping. This is some thing im not use to seeing him do that. Nothing more nothing less! So OutLaw again learn the difference.

I have said it before and ill say it again i have respect for the Falcons and most of its pilots! I would never dream of trying to tear apart the Falcons. They gave me my first home! Some were very good to me! And some not so much! Again i ask why would i do this? Now think hard before you make your next post Outlaw.

Have a Great day!

Grey. It was you who mentioned earlier you will have it in three days. No one is rushing you.

mikeslu wrote: Perhaps both squad leaders could remind all members that spawning is not allowed and ask all members to please stop if doing such a thing. If anyone person is spawn killing and can be proved maybe it could be handled better between squad leaders via pm.

We have clearly stated our Rules, and spawnkilling has never been allowed in the squad history of 2 years. All the spawnkillers got the punishment. We always welcome the reports with any evidence by all means including here in the thread, in PM or on our squad website with contact form.

Mr. GreyGhost,

Mr. Ghost on the post by Mr. Mikeslu I couldn't help but notice you thanked Mr. Mikeslu for his point of view. As such I would have recommended that you had stayed on the course of action suggested by Mr. Mikeslu but as now that you have personally affronted me sir that is now no longer possible and we will have to remedy this by other means. I feel that we can benefit from a point by point breakdown of your extremely well thought out post. Lets begin shall we?

1. Mr. Ghost you were warned by one Mr. Von Pay that you had three days to produce evidence of the event in question which apparently you were not in disagreement with. Lets call this the Statute of Limitations (SOL) shall we? After the SOL expired it was very clearly stated that failure to produce said evidence would result in your ability to tell the truth being questioned and or completely disregarded.

2. "If and when I provide proof." Mr. Ghost you have brought these accusations against a Falcon. If you are expecting results from the Falcons then the burden of proof falls to the prosecution (that would be you Mr. Ghost). No proof equals no case sir. Being a former Falcon yourself Mr. Ghost, I would have to assume that you would know that, however, if you did not know this then that would cast some light onto the fact as to why you are no longer a Falcon sir.

3. "I'm not attacking the whole squad." Mr. Ghost when you accuse a Falcon of a War Crime that is against a member of another squad it then becomes a Squad issue. We are Falcons. We have a name and a reputation to uphold much as does the Misfits. You cannot accuse a Misfit of War Crimes against a Squad Member without the Misfits doing the honourable and upright thing by coming to their Squad Member's aid. The Misfits I'm sure would in turn do the right thing and demand proofs much as Mr. Von Pay has.

4. "The Truth is a fickle thing." I completely disagree sir! The Truth is not subject to the whims of those who hold it. You sir have brought baseless accusations against someone and then have refused to bring forth the evidence to prove that what you say is the Truth. The Misfits have in my opinion have always upheld the highest traditions of honour and truth and I have had the privilege of flying with some of the best pilots in the game who just happen to fly the Misfit banner. I do not in any way speak for the Misfits, however, if I flew that honourable Misfit Banner I would be ashamed to share it with you sir.

5."Guardian was camping." Mr. Ghost I would reccommend to you that you take your own time to "think hard" as to the variations in your story and choose which variation you wish to stand behind. Was Mr. Guardian camping or was Mr. Guardian spawnkilling? I understand that it would be hard to produce photographic evidence of an event that you yourself cannot decide on the exact passage of events, how could a picture have two variations of a story in it?

6. If I were to accuse you Mr. Ghost of spawnkilling (which is a War Crime, camping is merely controversial) your Squad The Misfits would do the right thing and demand certain evidences from me to validate my claims against one of their Squad Member's. If I failed to produce said evidences then the end result would be that my credibility would be called into question much as yours now has been. Not only that but I would be called up on charges within my own Squad for Slander and Libel which I assure you would not not be taken lightly by my leadership.

In summary Mr. Ghost, I would ask that you produce the evidence you claim to have in your possession, or apologize to Mr Guardian for making claims that could have potentially brought Mr. Guardian up on War Crime charges within the Falcon Justice System. I would advise that you "think hard" before making this decision as I know both Mr. Bhfaust who is an honourable leader and Mr. Von Pay who is my Commander will be watching not to mention all pilots within both squads. In my humble opinion these are the only acceptable actions available to you at this moment in time, and continuing to spout rhetoric and foul language in a public forum can only weaken your postition further.

Respectfully Your's,
The Outlaw of Torn

I hate having to get in these things even though do it very often to often lol. Ghost next time you come with a report do you think you could please at least post the evidence along with the accusation so we do not have to wait days or months wondering if you are lying or if our squad member actually did go and break our rule. Saves a lot of trouble and fuss.

Skydavis1 wrote: I hate having to get in these things even though do it very often to often lol. Ghost next time you come with a report do you think you could please at least post the evidence along with the accusation so we do not have to wait days or months wondering if you are lying or if our squad member actually did go and break our rule. Saves a lot of trouble and fuss.

Sure thing Sky! After my aunts funeral, i will start looking for them! So nice to know that two of you pilots sure like to keep it going! There is a reason why i havent yet! And i think i just said it. Ummm now i will look soon.

Sorry to hear about your loss Ghost. My condolences to you and your family.

Im guessing the misfits and the falcons are now at (the long foreseen) war? I hate to butt in, and I know falcons stick up for each other, but Guardian has camped on me aswell, back when I first started in the big boy servers. it was my 3rd day in the servers actually. I was killed 4 times in a row by guardian. I asked y, he said if he turns tail he will get shot at anyway so he wont bother. I took it alittle cocky but I just shrugged it off. I didn't know he was a falcon, and t the time had no idea about squads or the falcons, or rules or anything, I was still a noob, heck still am)

Skydavis1 wrote: I hate having to get in these things even though do it very often to often lol. Ghost next time you come with a report do you think you could please at least post the evidence along with the accusation so we do not have to wait days or months wondering if you are lying or if our squad member actually did go and break our rule. Saves a lot of trouble and fuss.

I also must remind everyone that it was Bzerk that first started this verbal war. Asking all Misfits to go after him for his actions.

GreyGhost wrote: Sure thing Sky! After my aunts funeral, i will start looking for them! So nice to know that two of you pilots sure like to keep it going! There is a reason why i havent yet! And i think i just said it. Ummm now i will look soon.

My deep condolences to you and your family! We don't like to keep it going. We hate to. But, we are really tired of non-sense rubbish like this happening again and again. I have clearly made my point. It's your turn. Take your time. World won't end tomorrow.

GMoney wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I hate having to get in these things even though do it very often to often lol. Ghost next time you come with a report do you think you could please at least post the evidence along with the accusation so we do not have to wait days or months wondering if you are lying or if our squad member actually did go and break our rule. Saves a lot of trouble and fuss.

I also must remind everyone that it was Bzerk that first started this verbal war. Asking all Misfits to go after him for his actions.

I didn't start anything here. I pointed out one's actions in game to warn members of our squad. Merely to inform and fight fire with fire, is that not what has been preached here, skill blah blah. It was Swop who entered our thread and stirred the pot.

Regardless of the player or squad they are affiliated with, I will inform our members of foul play to give them an opportunity to be prepared. We will also give back to one who first gave and that has happened to more than one player in this game.

I do not report to anyone here and have no intention of doing so, in fact I rarely post on the blacklist. I prefer the good old fashion way of teaching one that maybe the play was uncalled for by letting them see how it makes them feel when given back.

It takes days for some of you to post anything and when you do, any progress that has been made goes up in smoke.

Whiners gonna whine. Liars gonna lie.

......again, started on your thread....we dont talk about other pilots in other squads on our thread...we do that by PM and on our website where these sort of things are not public....I only suggested that you PM Von Pay any concerns you have...I never "threatened, stirred the pot" etc. and after it was acknowledged that the post was read I made no further comments on your thread out of respect.

Von, your insults only show the lack of thought in any statement you make, your only defense is calling one names. Ironic how your lack of argument and your stance show nothing but what one would expect to see on the playground.

You have your cyber orders Swop, we have a realistic view. As such we will continue to be real and handle this as we see fit.

This is an endless exchange that will continue to remain ugly on this side. Provide the screen shots before you call one a whiner von, otherwise you are a liar.

[M]bzerkbzerk wrote: Von, your insults only show the lack of thought in any statement you make, your only defense is calling one names. Ironic how your lack of argument and your stance show nothing but what one would expect to see on the playground.

You have your cyber orders Swop, we have a realistic view. As such we will continue to be real and handle this as we see fit.

This is an endless exchange that will continue to remain ugly on this side. Provide the screen shots before you call one a whiner von, otherwise you are a liar.

I am sure it's not the first time I am telling you to quit whining. Check your whining posts here. Number #158631 and #158705.

[M]bzerkbzerk wrote:

GMoney wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I hate having to get in these things even though do it very often to often lol. Ghost next time you come with a report do you think you could please at least post the evidence along with the accusation so we do not have to wait days or months wondering if you are lying or if our squad member actually did go and break our rule. Saves a lot of trouble and fuss.

I also must remind everyone that it was Bzerk that first started this verbal war. Asking all Misfits to go after him for his actions.

I didn't start anything here. I pointed out one's actions in game to warn members of our squad. Merely to inform and fight fire with fire, is that not what has been preached here, skill blah blah. It was Swop who entered our thread and stirred the pot.

Regardless of the player or squad they are affiliated with, I will inform our members of foul play to give them an opportunity to be prepared. We will also give back to one who first gave and that has happened to more than one player in this game.

I do not report to anyone here and have no intention of doing so, in fact I rarely post on the blacklist. I prefer the good old fashion way of teaching one that maybe the play was uncalled for by letting them see how it makes them feel when given back.

It takes days for some of you to post anything and when you do, any progress that has been made goes up in smoke.

It doesn't matter where it started, Bzerk. You still called war on him so we as a squad took action much like how Ghost jumped in as well. So, how about we just leave this one be instead of going back and forth with all this banter and just take out our frustrations in the game. Deal?

May i call this matter closed on the thread, and move it to pms. Or am i allowed to do so, i dont mnd being called a liar, its the nices thing some has called in a while! All though i am not nor will i ever lie about something like this.

A final post on this comment, since your demigod leader likes to call others whiners. It started here on our thread and then you Von began to whine on this thread and have continued to do so with insult.

No one likes an unfair game, in fact most of us will switch to help out outnumbered teams regardless of who it is. Generally the first thing we do is see if another Misfit is in game and if outnumbered try to switch sides to help. If the game is balanced, both sides equal, then stay where you are for the entire game.

Unfortunately more times than most, a game turns to one side or the other numerous times. As a rule, if I switch sides and have been playing that side for the majority of the game, I will stay there no matter what happens. If you have earned those points and kills, then you deserve to keep them, jumping may cause you to lose them.

Just reiterating a couple things here as well, once you have dropped your bomb, head back to reload, do not camp over a base. Evade and defend, but get out if you can. Provide cover if you have incoming bombers, do not try to spawn kill and try to be fair.

If you see 111th guardian, feel free to drop your bomb, he will do it to you. Feel free to shoot him down as much as possible, if you don't he will camp on you with no incoming bombers. Some tend to play this way and the one way to counter is to give it back, don't get drawn into a word battle, just battle and if possible, pin guardian down and let him have a taste of what he considers fair play. Do not spawn kill.

He likes to hang out behind the runway, drop throttle to near stall and try to catch you right as you get wheels up. Forewarning and something to keep in mind if you are in game and he is red.

.....when you posted something that could be handled by PM or on the Misfits website....and then there WAS insult when lies were said regarding Guardian spawnkilling which Von Pay has mentioned and addressed already....

Bzerk....it appears you arent listening to your fellow Misfit GreyGhost on the matter.

I also consider it "insulting" to call OUR leader on OUR thread a "demigod"....no one has ever "insulted you or Misfits" on YOUR thread. so please listen to GreyGhost on this matter....regarding this topic.

When one addresses an entire squad as whiners or liars, I think that constitutes an insult on any thread.

PLEASE are you saying your not going to listen to fellow Misfit GreyGhost on the subject?

Again...I didnt insult on Misfit thread and therefore didnt start it...

Von's post was not entire squad but to those on our Falcon thread who have...and if it is a fact then its not an insult...Von has stated everything for these things to be looked at differently and we Falcons are waiting...

Dang!!! what happened here! I put my keys up and am gone a week and this happens! shesh guys. All over a simple thing that could have been sent through pms. Von im sending u a pm. Please respond when u get time. Ill try to stick around forum for a few days to give u time to reply.

Agreed Kes....Thats exactly what I suggested on the Misfit site with no insult, only honor and dignity...

Let's close this topic since there is nothing left to be said.

A note to [M]bzerkbzerk: Thank you for your final whining post here. I never addressed Misfits squad as whiners or liars. No assumptions please. And I won't stereotype the whole squad because of some bad apples from that squad.

A note to Grey Ghost: Please take your time finding proof for what you said. Until then, you will be regarded as a liar.

I found a cute little monkey picture that explains everything too! Awwwwwww.... cute huh?