Since this has been a topic for years. I mean, Dogfight Elite was created around 7 years ago. It has ALWAYS had World War 2 airplanes. It was always the intention. But old players that knew the game from before just keep complaining about WW2 planes. Newer players since 5 years ago doesn't even know this issue. But since this is a hobby for me and I'm just so tired of this conversation I'm willing to remove all WW2 planes and send them to trash.

Now, you may think: oh, why you don't split the airplanes in two servers? Duh, well, it was like that. It was a HORRIBLE idea. People would just move to the games that had players at that moment. If it was WW1, everyone would pick WW1 planes. Or vice versa. Defeating the purpose of picking planes because in the end, everyone would end up in the same place. (surprise, like right now!)
It also created a whole load of problems because the same way that WW1 players complain about WW2 airplanes, WW1 players would complain about having their rank 4 airplane against a rank 10 airplane in WW1 fight, saying it was very unbalanced (same as now, surprise!). Basically, there was always a reason to complain and players kept leaving in massive amounts. So I will not repeat the mistake of splitting servers in WW1 and WW2 with so few people because it destroys the game. I either keep it as it is right now, or I'll just remove WW2 completely.

I explained it with an example in World Chat of what used to happen when servers were split. I repeat it here to make it clear:
1) People were picking either WW2 or WW1 planes. Room created. Let's say they picked WW2 airplanes. After a few minutes...
2) People with not a high enough ranking could not pick WW2 planes. So they got their WW1 room going on. All cool.
3) WW2 players finish the game. They realize that there are more people in WW1 rooms (obviously, always more people are lower rank than 47 or whatever high rank). So they switch planes and set it to WW1 so they can play with more people or squadmates.
4) WW2 rooms get empty quickly. People who want to play WW2 are alone. They paid for planes they don't use. They ranked up for nothing.
5) WW2 airplanes are stigmatized. If you use them, you play alone or people will attack you for picking them. You stop playing.

And this is why splitting servers doesn't work and destroys the game. I set it so that the server places higher ranks on different rooms, but then some players simply do not want to play WW2 planes because they like their WW1 planes. And they would attack WW2 people telling them to switch their planes. I think this is plain wrong. If you are rank 40 and pick a WW1 plane because you like it, cool. But don't mandate everyone else in the room to not pick their best available plane.


So here are my two options in the poll:
- The game should stay as it is now. I like my WW2 planes. And if you don't, you can pick your WW1 planes. 
- Completely remove WW2 planes from the game.

The options are on the top of this page. Also, I would like you to state your reasoning and if I take one or the option what would you do? Would you subscribe? Unsubscribe? Do nothing?

You have to understand that this is not an easy poll for me. I've spent many years working on this game.


Thanks



 

heres the rub zup alot of folks paid for the ww2 planes with money and they will be pissed as hell if you scrap them .The mix of ww1 ww2 Dont work we get a decent game going where everyone is having a great match and some guy with limited skill loops the loop at warp speed and slips past all the ww1 planes and finishes the game no with skill needed he didnt really win the game even though  he won .i been playing since 2014 i love this game with all my heart its simple to pick up and play and has a great mix of older and younger players . i think you should have it as before where you can pick ww1 or ww2 or maybe alternate the games one game be ww1 the next be ww2 people can choose if they want to play or not

Yeah but if you have the rank to fly a WW2 plane and decide to fly a WW1 plane, you should know that could happen. Punishing the WW2 player for picking the plane they want doesn't make sense. I've seen some people calling other nasty names because they picked a ww2 plane. And they have a speed advantage, but they can be easily destroyed if you have skills and they don't, as you said. It's real easy to collaborate and bring them down.

You don't want to fly ww2 planes. But then ask for everyone else to do the same even if they don't want to. As I explained this was the reason I split servers and I also explained why it didn't work. At the end everyone would be at the same war type and since nobody was at the other, it was never used. It was basically the same as just removing one of the World Wars when I allowed for splitting servers.

Hey zup. Chiron makes a good point t about ppl being mad if u took ww2 planes they spent a lot of money on. Also makes a good point about having a good game going with ww1 and ww2 drops by and just flies past everyone (u can't catch ww2 with ww1). I enter many games and if see someone with a ww2.. most of the time I just leave that game. I'm an original player from way back in the day u know this. I loved everything about the original ( yes I understand the game had to be updated and move with the times) ,  my aim isn't what it used be when u had to have a perfect shot lined up now I'm still figuring out how high above someone to shoot for bullets to hit them ( that also changes when they have ww2 too, have to go lower than normal). I don't care about kdr I never have. I don't care about winning or losing I never have. I guess my point is is that ur not going to be able to please everyone.  So since u won't seperate servers for ww1 and ww2 which wud be my vote if it were an option.. then I say just leave it the way it is.

well its not that easy as you say to catch or kill a ww2 .how you think a new player feels in a tier one plane as a jet flies  by him at many  times the speed he can achieve even most skilled players dont even bother to chase ww2 planes as they know they have no hope

Any refund for WW2 planes removal?

ill send you your 2 cents mark

CH!RON 13 wrote:

well its not that easy as you say to catch or kill a ww2 .how you think a new player feels in a tier one plane as a jet flies  by him at many  times the speed he can achieve even most skilled players dont even bother to chase ww2 planes as they know they have no hope


My reply:
Exactly the same they feel when a tier 1 plane gets massacred by a Sopwith or Fokker DVIII. You just forget because you see WW2 planes now. But when WW2 planes were not around, the complain was exactly the same against other WW1 planes. And it makes sense to complain if you are ranked 2 and get against a rank 47. But it is not right that you are rank 30, pick a shitty plane and then complain because someone picks a good one.

 

World War 1 air combat is what drew me to this game., and make no mistake the original dogfight was by far the best offering out there in my opinion. Ww2 air combat games are a dime a dozen yet still I think this ww2 is as good as most I just prefer ww1. Ideally we could separate them but that didn't work for you as you explained.  It's easy for me to say go ww1 and go 110% with it, that's my vote if we vote but it is not fair to those of us that bought 3verything like m e lol and others and also we cant overlook the fact that you have indeed put a lot of time and effort in ww2 expansion it would  be scrapping a lot of work. If separation of the two ww1 and ww2 can't work, im  ww1 if a choice must be made. We all lose something that way however,us our planes and zup his time and work. You could perhaps make up the aircraft losses somehow I don't know. It's a tough choice because those top tier ww2 planes were way to expensive

KEEP THEM ZUP. AND YOU DO WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST BECAUSE IT IS. Thank you for everything.

It's your game, do what you want. You make the game the way you enjoy most.
I personally prefer flying WW1 because WW2 is too darn fast for my geriatric reaction time, but the WW2 planes are cool to fly sometimes.
(If they are going to stay in the same game you could reduce the arguments by even up the odds a bit: Try giving the WW2 planes wider turning circles, which would have been the way it was with more speed, then WW1ers have advantage in turn fights.)

I enjoy both World War 1 and 2, do prefer more WW1 combat, but I’ve been in some wwii matches that were good. So my say is to keep them
( Pointing out right now that I’ve only joined about 18 months back )
Agreed with Gannet that the faster aircraft should have bigger turning circles 

I like WW1 only. To me that was the best time in this game. I bought the WW2 planes, but they sit and I never fly them as I have watched many games over in minutes when a jet arrives and bombs hangers or carriers. 

People will always find something to complain about--most of it can be ignored with the exception of a team-killer. I have thought it would be a good idea to promote new players joining a squad of their choice. In this way a new player can ask questions, get tips and feel a part of the community. They can try out different squads until they find one they like. In fact that's what I did as I moved up the WW1 ranking in the original DF. Many folks helped me along the way. 

The mixed wars create lag and crashes. I don't play many games, but this one I have played for years and enjoy. 

Thanks! 

I realize there are two choices, and if it were me I would say leave it alone. ....... for now

I don't like playing games where the wars are mixed but it is my choice as I do have all the ww2 planes that I care to have and choose not to play them. When someone comes in with a WW2 plane I always have the choice to keep playing or just leave and those players in the WW2 planes have the exact same choice.

With that being said, I think the focus should be attracting more players and having different choices of servers, which can only be accomplished by adding people. Back when there were lots of players a game could be full of all WW1 planes and when one player had to leave, a WW2 plane would enter the room. At that point players would request the new player get into a WW1 plane and they would actually do it, or switch to a different game where they could play the WW2 plane. Due to the lack of players and choices of servers nobody can switch to a different game when they want to fly their WW2 plane, or WW1 plane, etc. What I have just described was the ideal model, but it was also how the game was when I first joined with 6 servers to choose from. If I got in a game with people way over or under my skill level I had a choice to play in a different server. DF life was good, the game was fun, and you could almost always play in games with friends. No, that isn't one of the choices you have laid out for us Zup because you say different servers have been tried and people complained on both sides of the argument, however if there were many players I think we can agree that separate servers would work well.

I know you have said that time constraints and money constraints have forced you to remove servers and the number of overall active players has dramatically decreased since the rollout of DFE. As an example, when I have time to play there are, on average, only 3-5 players total online world wide.

I think that separate servers could actually work IF there were enough players to populate both AND maybe have additional places to go when the flood of top players enter a game with noobs, and vice-versa. I think the number of servers was the key, which is driven by player numbers. The biggest con I have seen posted about the game on the download site is the historical inaccuracy of WW1 and WW2 planes in the same game.

So how do we add and keep new players? Not an easy question to answer and I wish I could offer a solution. Maybe you could look back through your data and see what changes to the game led to the most players lost?

Gaining players probably will not happen overnight but I, for one, will stick with it because I know how great this game can be when there are lots of people and hope it gets back to that way again.

Zuperman, why not alternate games one game WW1 next WW2 And if they don't rank high or have WW2 planes they go into WW1 only. Would be good if first person in game can choose the mission. Also what about allow people to do their own lobby? and manage the mission, if they want or not ww2 planes in etc.

Answering to Viper, very few changes in the game created a big dropout of players really. It was two things:

The app stores. They switched from displaying games with the best ratings and quality, to ads. So I have to pay to be displayed and promoted by the store. And huge amounts of money. Before I would get constantly promoted by the store because the game had players and they liked it. Now, I either pay the app store to be listed on top, or I get lost in the massive amount of games in there. This change in the store had a huge impact on recruiting new players. It went from getting thousands of new players a day to barely 100, because people cannot find the game unless typing it exactly. You can try yourself to search for dogfight or dogfight elite and you will find the game is not listed in the first result, even though it's literally the name of the game. This affects not only my game but I know tons of indie devs that got destroyed by this. Only big studies with big budgets can be listed on top now unless by miracle Apple/Google decides to promote you out of the millions of apps they have.

Then add this to the passing of time. As years go by, older players get tired of playing. Drama. Or whatever. Like every game. People switch to new games and so on. But now, the app store is not bringing in new players. So it shrinks little by little throughout the years.

And then problems begin to arise. Fewer players mean I have to reduce server count. Because not enough people are playing you can't have 10 people in 5 different servers or divided by world wars. So I have to put them together. When I put them together, they complain about rank mismatch or world war mismatch. And so on. And I have to think of ways to let the few players that join to stick around before they get destroyed by oldies.

And then, oldies that are not happy instead of helping after so many years and aware of the situation, help destroy the game by giving bad reviews. Example, that got me saying, wtf
 

And it's not the only one. So I have to fight several fronts: lack of new players due to the store, trying for players to have others to match against, keep new players "protected" from oldies, and the reviews that may stop new people from joining in.

If I don't add WW2 planes, people complain they want WW2 planes. If I add WW2 planes. People complain I added WW2 planes. I feel I'm working to make nobody happy.





 

My view was including old dogfight which I liked yes I play dfe but started in df. I try playing the way it is just don't like some of the updates. I had a good review up till recently but changed it with last u p date. I dont see anything wrong with the words I chose it is not at all a scathing review . And for most part I play mostly ww1 aircraft. So I don't know what is so bad about my review I did and do enjoy ww1 and you have made some game choices that that weren't that great . I realize you have reasons for things you have done but  saying I prefer ww1 over ww2 and that game has went in diff direction is true

Just reread review and stand by it, dont se that it is bad other than star rating
i said on another post I was done with forum and am I had to.V OTE in the poll and clarify my post. 

it's your review. You can say whatever, but 1 star rating for a game you play for years? really? 2 stars must be orgasmic

this is a 5 star game. I do believe it's better with ww1 and 2 separated, but I'll play either way, zuperman.

Awww ty that's nice ty kid

Vote poll for dunc7 as vice president

Keep the game the way it is now, I enjoy it. People stop complaining about everything and just have fun. I will play either way.

Well Dick, I totally agree with you. I also love the game and respect what Joaquin has already accomplished. I also always fly ww1 (probably has to do with my age but if there are others who want to use their ww2 that is their full right. We're doing our best to bring them down. If they're really too fast because they don't carry bombs I let them go and they shoot me in the back then so be it. I certainly won't complain as I can also take my ww2 if I want to. Leave it as it is and just have fun. Complainers are always there and you can never do good to everyone.

   I believe most people who first downloaded this game came here for the love of WW1 planes.
If I wanted to fly Jets, there's better games than this one for that.
                                                                                 
                                                                                                            Thanks, Skeeter72

1. Ideal world would be two servers.
2. Two servers needs more players.
3. It's not realistic to expect Zup to "advertise", there's no money in it, and he's doing it for the fun of creating, not selling
4 Seems to me the best way to get more players is word of mouth. In other words, the existing players have to sell it to friends, through social media etc, by whatever method is at their disposal.

Zup you will never be able to please everyone. Do what's best for you.
Thank you for the many thousands of hours of FUN you have given us. What are we here for, to enjoy and have FUN!

What first attracted me to the game when I downloaded it in 2019 was WW2 (yeah, I'm one of those 'few' guys). But I grinded too slowly, so slowly that I started to like flying my noob WW1s. It was quite relaxing, and most of the community (and in particular my squadron, [Ñ]) often used Great War planes at head-ons, so that's my fighting style as well. 

But jets were always there to annoy me. Watching how they looped and shot at my six without any opportunity of defending myself was frustrating. When I finally purchased a Mustang I knew that, one day, the glorious jet times would be over. It was really bad at first, but with several upgrades it turned into a fearsome machine. And with upgrades I mean only speed and agility. These screenshots are literally from today:





What was just a way of defending myself from turn fighting jets turned into another way of having fun. I love massacring WW2s until they rage quit and getting them out of some newbie's tail (just like some players such as Vane did to help me too), especially if those planes are used by trolls. 

What do I mean with all this? Well, if you asked what to do with WW2s a year ago, I would have said 'DELETE THOSE TRASH CANS THAT ARE ONLY USED TO SHOOT AT NOOBS!', but now I just can't. Maybe I'm masochistic. What I know is that it's another way to have fun for me. 

Deleting WW2 planes can also be an issue, as all those who spent real money will, logically, ask for a refund. Also having them creates a wider number of potential players (such as I was!). So you know what I'm going to vote. Maybe it's not fair for newbies as it wasn't for me. But I'll do my best to cover them. 

But hey, both options are good for me. Not having WW2s makes the game more realistic too. 

BTW, GRATS DICK ON YOUR MORAF!!! 

And finally, something that has nothing to do with this, but Nieuport 17's and Albatros D.V's prize has been extremely increased to $192K ($150K more than before, just the same as Camel's and Schuckert's). Maybe this was intended, but it seemed it really weird to me to see that the Se5 and the Dr.I still cost the same as before. Idk if this happens with more planes that I have already purchased.  

Be brave and have fun !
I do not care !
I will always be there with a old plane !
I love this game even though WW2 planes sometimes ruin parts...
This game is a business and a business has to make money to stay...
Ask yourself, Zup, the question whether WW2 planes make money for DFE... If not remove them and focus your objective on WW1 in order to achieve historical consistency.
I came here to revive in fun the memory of pegoud and the first war flights, I will never play in WW2... I am a special case...

dogfightelite.com/index.php/forum/3-feed...planes-from-the-game

Want to change my vote to Delete ww2. You just changed the ranks to a ridiculous range. It already took forever to get. Now rank 32?!?!?!?! Never be able to level the playing field now. Absurd. Delete ww2.  Awful update. Sorry.