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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339065

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Zup: Do you have an opinion you'll share of your thoughts and vision on what would make a better game?

I've been playing for nearly 4 years now and have been part of many debates about how the game should be played. Mainly I rely on your statement from a while back: "Let others have fun and you'll have fun". My idea of fun is to play smart and develop tactical flying skills. I encourage people to use their heads to come up with strategies instead of just going into the meat grinder. Some want casual games that they can play after work or while drinking or whatnot, while others want it to be more of a strategic, thinking game where many different skills have more of an influence. It's obviously not as simple as 'one way or the other', the real answer is probably in between and a combination of both. The thing is that many design issues present a dilemma for appeasing both crowds.

Things like having the larger kill boxes around planes makes for more of a simple shooter type game, while having ballistic drop encourages closer engagements. The trees and clouds being solid adds more complexity and options... Judging by many things you have implemented over the years I'd say that you are a supporter of strategic complexity but you are also trying to keep the simple-game people happy.


I understand that your vision and desires may be different from what you feel you need to do to appease the complaints and keep some people around, but no one but you can say where the "creator" is coming from here. If you want to just go for the simple-shooter version I'll quit posting my opinions and just play. If you want to support strategic play I'll keep posting my encouragement for those who think outside of the valley of death and continue with my feedback as always.


Sincerely curious,

Alex "McFate"
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339079

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Zup: Do you have an opinion you'll share of your thoughts and vision on what would make a better game?

I've been playing for nearly 4 years now and have been part of many debates about how the game should be played. Mainly I rely on your statement from a while back: "Let others have fun and you'll have fun". My idea of fun is to play smart and develop tactical flying skills.


Now i'm not a game developer but i do know a little bit about what sells and what doesn't, I've been in the construction industry for 25 plus year's and build dozens of model home's every year. Now these home's are designed to what's in style with the majority of our customers want in a new home and they sell fast, sure i could build it to my vision of what i would consider a great home but will it sell? Probably not because it's designed for someone specific in mind and may not be what everyone's looking for.
Now do i design a home that may take months to sell or do i go for the for sure thing and build what the majority wanted? Simple as that really.

Btw i play how i want to and have a lot of fun doing it so who is anyone to say it's boring or wrong?

Let others have fun and you'll have fun just sayin.
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339081

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T-built,

I have never said that up-the-middle is the "wrong" way to play.

Over the years people have constantly said that sneaking, dropping, intentionally tanking, covering for team mates once you have dropped your bombs is wrong. Some have even claimed these things are against the rules and called for the banning of some who do.

I encourage people to fly how they want and to use their heads in how they play regardless of how others might complain. I do not tell people who want to not to fly up-the-middle

Got it this time?
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339087

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[NLR] McFate wrote: T-built,

I have never said that up-the-middle is the "wrong" way to play.

Over the years people have constantly said that sneaking, dropping, intentionally tanking, covering for team mates once you have dropped your bombs is wrong. Some have even claimed these things are against the rules and called for the banning of some who do.

I encourage people to fly how they want and to use their heads in how they play regardless of how others might complain. I do not tell people who want to not to fly up-the-middle

Got it this time?


Okay you didn't say it's wrong but countless time's i've heard boring, meat grinder, valley of death that's my idea of fun it may not be everyone's idea of fun but it's mine and has worked well for 4 year's. I keep hearing you saying i play this way and that's great do as you wish and play the way you want to. But don't say the valley of death is boring or easy.

Don't worry i won't be a smart ass and ask if you got it this time.
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339090

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[*M]TBUILT wrote:

[NLR] McFate wrote: T-built,

I have never said that up-the-middle is the "wrong" way to play.

Over the years people have constantly said that sneaking, dropping, intentionally tanking, covering for team mates once you have dropped your bombs is wrong. Some have even claimed these things are against the rules and called for the banning of some who do.

I encourage people to fly how they want and to use their heads in how they play regardless of how others might complain. I do not tell people who want to not to fly up-the-middle

Got it this time?


Okay you didn't say it's wrong but countless time's i've heard boring, meat grinder, valley of death that's my idea of fun it may not be everyone's idea of fun but it's mine and has worked well for 4 year's. I keep hearing you saying i play this way and that's great do as you wish and play the way you want to. But don't say the valley of death is boring or easy.

Don't worry i won't be a smart ass and ask if you got it this time.



Great! I'm glad we got this out there. It happens over and over that people misinterpret what I'm saying exactly as you have. It's the little catch that some of you Ms seem to have where you take the worst interpretation and run with it and blow things up into a new enemy-of-the-day drama.


Up-the-middle only is often boring to me. Why does that insult you? I'm not the least bit phased when head-on guys say similar stuff and won't stick around for CTC or DF missions. The "meat grinder" or "Valley of death"? I think it's pretty descriptive and makes me chuckle when I see 4 vs. 4 get shot down wave after wave... I've read about historical battles and seen movies where real war choke points earned similar names. "Hamburger Hill" comes to mind. (Hill 937 in Vietnam is a great case study on use of military tactics)

Anyway, fly your way I'll fly mine. Post what you want, I'll post what I post. I'm not after the Misfits. Got that too I hope.

I'm not after the Misfits. Still you guys react like ex-wives. I could post "men tend to put on extra weight once they reach middle age" and chances are some of you would take it personally.

Enjoy the game. Let others enjoy it. If you don't like my posts don't read them.
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339111

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[NLR] McFate wrote:

[*M]TBUILT wrote:

[NLR] McFate wrote: T-built,

I have never said that up-the-middle is the "wrong" way to play.

Over the years people have constantly said that sneaking, dropping, intentionally tanking, covering for team mates once you have dropped your bombs is wrong. Some have even claimed these things are against the rules and called for the banning of some who do.

I encourage people to fly how they want and to use their heads in how they play regardless of how others might complain. I do not tell people who want to not to fly up-the-middle

Got it this time?


Okay you didn't say it's wrong but countless time's i've heard boring, meat grinder, valley of death that's my idea of fun it may not be everyone's idea of fun but it's mine and has worked well for 4 year's. I keep hearing you saying i play this way and that's great do as you wish and play the way you want to. But don't say the valley of death is boring or easy.

Don't worry i won't be a smart ass and ask if you got it this time.



Great! I'm glad we got this out there. It happens over and over that people misinterpret what I'm saying exactly as you have. It's the little catch that some of you Ms seem to have where you take the worst interpretation and run with it and blow things up into a new enemy-of-the-day drama.


Up-the-middle only is often boring to me. Why does that insult you? I'm not the least bit phased when head-on guys say similar stuff and won't stick around for CTC or DF missions. The "meat grinder" or "Valley of death"? I think it's pretty descriptive and makes me chuckle when I see 4 vs. 4 get shot down wave after wave... I've read about historical battles and seen movies where real war choke points earned similar names. "Hamburger Hill" comes to mind. (Hill 937 in Vietnam is a great case study on use of military tactics)

Anyway, fly your way I'll fly mine. Post what you want, I'll post what I post. I'm not after the Misfits. Got that too I hope.

I'm not after the Misfits. Still you guys react like ex-wives. I could post "men tend to put on extra weight once they reach middle age" and chances are some of you would take it personally.

Enjoy the game. Let others enjoy it. If you don't like my posts don't read them.

I feel you are both top players in the way chose to fly. TBuilt is one I hate to see red as I know he will drop me like a stone. Mcfate I enjoy playing because I then feel comfortable in using sneak, dive bomb and other tactics others do not embrace. Two Top Pilots as your self's have no need to squabble. Your both at the pinnacle of your desired playing style. I wish I was half as good. Fly well and Salute AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339115

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Still want to know where my freaking Camaro is...


To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into thy bosom’s core
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339117

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Earlier i used to sneak just to speed things up.

The game does provide at least 4 km max altitude and about 4 km length and breadth. Yet phrases like diving out of the sun are unheard of. Or a black German triplane diving out of the night sky...

In all my time of playing (approaching 3 years) i have only fought near mountain range behind (north and northeast of) the German base thrice. once in a DF mission when my opponent and i were approaching from behind Mount Ducky and once in a CTF mission when we shot down a sneaking allied guy who was running away with our flag and i returned it from a steep mountainside and survived! and lastly when i intercepted a sneak before he got close in a BTB mission.

That DF fight was just great, we both had to shoot at an instant's notice with so many things like angle of approach, altitude, speed and the terrain itself!

Retrieving the flag in time was essential and involved complex and timely maneuvers that i have never before or since had the occasion to use.

Due to expert use of terrain by the other guy, i got shot down despite him carrying bombs and myself having dropped them to save time.

Just saying, this game has more to offer than we are taking from it.

Yo Husky, where can i get that tank?
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339118

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dogfight élite,esta preparado para ser un juego mixto,es decir tiro de cabeza pero también estrategia para las distintas misiones
las nubes,los árboles son elementos estratégicos,yo juego de cabeza,pero también
me gusta la estrategia,de hecho siempre que entro procuro contactar con algún piloto para hacerla.Creo sinceramente que este juego puede dar mucho de sí en cuanto a creatividad,no se
por que no se valora en su justa medida el trabajo de Joaquín, no lo entiendo.El juego élite,puede ser más completo y divertido que
nuestro antiguo juego.
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339129

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I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure Zup had a vision when he first started writing code for this game. Create a game where players could have fun, flying on a wide open map killing the enemy. Hopefully making a little money while doing so. That's about the whole thing in a nut shell.

ALL IN 100%
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339131

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Husky Dog wrote: Still want to know where my freaking Camaro is...


One day man, one day... :S
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339133

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Husky Dog wrote: Still want to know where my freaking Camaro is...

Uhhhh.....Husky.......Bad News about the Camaro Brother!

[M]isfit to the core
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 7 months ago #339144

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[NLR] McFate wrote: T-built,

I have never said that up-the-middle is the "wrong" way to play.

Over the years people have constantly said that sneaking, dropping, intentionally tanking, covering for team mates once you have dropped your bombs is wrong. Some have even claimed these things are against the rules and called for the banning of some who do.

I encourage people to fly how they want and to use their heads in how they play regardless of how others might complain. I do not tell people who want to not to fly up-the-middle

Got it this time?


Hey , I've been Goin up the middle since I was 17 and got to say so far so good , now I'm not suggesting I created earthquakes but god loves a trier !! B) and as for trying to sneak it in the other way well that's lead to a couple of Slaps in the past :blush: , honesty is the best policy I've learnt , and just incase your on about the game B) well I suggest you try goin up the middle yourself sometime , it just seems kinda natural!
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 6 months ago #341557

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I did a little research. ;)

A couple of weeks ago I asked Zuperman (Joaquin Grech) what his vision is for Dogfight. I don't blame him for not answering here because he already spoke of his vision + three years ago.

I did a video search of "Joaquin Grech Dogfight Elite" and found this. It was made for promoting the kickstart campaign that would have provided funding for Echoboom to hire a development team to bring Grech's vision to reality:



(This vimeo video does not show on some devices.)

From the video:

Joaquin Grech wrote: "Dogfight was very simple. The idea was you just go online, you play almost without any logic. You just kill anybody you find on there. But Dogfight Elite will be much better."




When Dogfight was first launched it was very simple. You would log in and either have a Sopwith camel or a Dr1. Many players would join and have very little idea what they were supposed to do and there were few mechanisms for preventing "game ruining behavior". Zup has constantly worked on it and made improvements with nearly constant updates. (check out the history of additions in the "announcements" section if you're curious.) All of these changes have been part of a bigger picture to make Dogfight more than just a "simple shooter" kind of game.

When this video was made three years ago the original version of the game had already been upgraded to include many advanced features that the original game could not adequately support. The advancement of technology, and probably some "if I could do it over again..." has made it so the original version of the game has become obsolete. Elite is Dogfight. Everything that went into the original game is also in Elite but now there is also more. Elite has continued to progress just as original DF did and it is still headed toward a larger vision of what the game may become.



From the Video:

Joaquin Grech wrote: "In Dogfight Elite the most interesting part will be the social aspect of the game. It will allow the entire family or your group of friends to perform together strategies and missions. We also found it important to have an educational component, therefore the game will take place in a historical context beginning in WW1 and progressing to the second with a period of peace in between. We want to add many aircraft of WW2, include many territories and team assignments, weapons and tanks of different eras.

But perhaps the most important thing we want to do is we want to give you the ability to create your own squadrons where you, your friends or family can play together against other squadrons.


Hang in there! There a many more changes to come. Zup also mentions that there will be many more mission types. What sort of missions will there be for the "times of peace"? Barnstorming? A mail delivery race? A delivery route where you have to fly through bad weather? :lol: (To everything there is a season...) :P

Thanks for the good times and keep up the good work Joaquin! Dogfight has been an adventure and I sincerely hope it works out for you to keep it going.
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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 6 months ago #341559

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I enjoy going up the middle especially with enemies like mean and Davy Crockett '
I'd rather go up the middle shooting head on then shoot my enemy in from behind,to me there is no appeal in that knowing that person can't shoot me back
To me fighting up the middle shows skill there is also different tactics you can use i only tell tactics to squad members or pm me

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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 6 months ago #341562

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Zuperman, what is your vision for DF? 7 years 6 months ago #341563

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I had my first experience with an Oculus on a cell phone the other day. Virtual reality is a whole new bag. Imagine being able to turn your head to look anywhere around you while you use a joystick to maneuver and shoot. Turn fighting would be a whole new thing because you could follow your opponent by turning your head instead of just looking forward or dragging the screen with your finger.

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