I already posted about this and I see you are posting in several threads about the subject. If you are red, you are the enemy. Simple as that.
 

What happens if i give a damn about it ?

It’s all about mind over matter….we don’t mind ,you don’t …….

Actions have been taken in the past. If the abusers keep doing it, they will get banned. I was pretty clear in the past and I am very clear now.
But I don't go hunting people down. Everyone does some things against the rules from time to time and I try to be flexible. I only get involved if this becomes a recurring theme for that same person.

On the other hand, I see some posts trying to get players banned just because they dislike those people. And I don't agree with that either. One thing is to give them a warning and another is to try to get them expelled from the game because you dislike them. Giving a pass to other players, although is not right, it's not such a huge offense that requires an immediate ban and throws them into hell fire. I try to keep it balanced. In sort, there are some things that are not just black and white but a tone of grey and I believe those players would get the hint.
 

Who likes a cheater hello no one people got rank up from that cheating I don't want anyone kicked out but there rank should be adjusted that's only fair the people that came forward shouldn't be treated. Like they did something wrong alls I know is cheating in any way is still cheating bullying its all wrong this game should be free of that that's what we pay for just saying

So I am asking for feedback, because think that this should be as automatic as possible. I can’t be 24/7 in the game so I need a system.

how can we check automatically when someone is giving a “pass” to the enemy? Or just missing them and the enemy was able to go through?
I can’t think of a way to check that without actually been in the game.

also, is that cheating? I believe it is wrong to let one person bomb your hangars constantly, but anyone else can kill that person too. It is hard to justify it is cheating to actually do nothing against a player.

What should be the punishment for doing such thing?

and lastly, how big of a problem is it? Does it ruin the game often or is it only a couple of players doing this and the impact is not large?

please, answer each point and help me out. Because for me this subject is not an easy topic with easy solution.
 

You play a game 2 against 2 and your team mate isn't helping you at all hes get point and the other 2 and you loose and everyone gets points but you just by you saying is it cheating tells me your not going to do anything wasting our monen and time if yo do nothing nothing will change a lie is a lie know matter how small its still a lie cheating is Cheating your game if its ok to cheat the game wont be fun or fair. Just saying kill Red team work lets teach kid its not ok to cheat because the world is loosing what's right and what's wrong just saying

Im trying not to make this personal. But let me sumarize also what I saw when I reviewed the logs:
1) All of these players who complain here, insulting these players for days for reasons completely unrelated to what we are talking here.
2) OWL you promote fairness, mention that kids play this game and such, but I have multiple logs of you insulting them just because they brought you down. From calling them bitches to punk asses. Fritz little bitch and so on. When they did nothing wrong, just killing you. And you used spaces to make sure the chat filter would show the insults properly.
3) Creating fake accounts to get into the game just to insult them.
4) Changing your names and creating a squad called “Belgians free passes”.

Those are just a few I found in the last days. I can keep searching.


If you want to promote high standards, look at your behavior too. Because if you ask me to take measures I would go towards both sides and you won’t like it. You say I don’t do anything because I am protecting certain players as if I am close friends with anyone here. I don’t know you guys, I have no clue who you are and I have no personal feelings towards you. All I do is try to keep it balanced because if one side was clearly bad vs the other it would be an easy choice but in this case you are behaving horribly too.

Take a step back and get some perspective. This is a game. I already asked for feedback on how to try to automate this so that it is not a problem. If you make it personal it will not help anyone.

Please reply the question I asked for feedback, otherwise this will go nowhere and never get resolved.
 

Zup as they say no smoke without a fire...

Could it be a response to the frustration calling ppl different names because of there's no consequences if playing in same games as players acting like fifth columnists... Especially when they are in same team.
Imagine you play 2 vs 2 and your teammate get the free passes... Then you have to deal with 2 attacking red on  your plane  and your teammate get all the points and your k/d suffers best case you get points for a win...
However it could also work like the fifth columnist only get 9/10 hangers and then they swap tactic.  You teammate start to give the opposite team free passes and you are still the main goal without no help from your teammate...
Reds end the game you get almost no points and a defeat as outcome from that particular game...

Going to be hard to motivate start whit a new game as long the fifth columnists still playing... And if that tactic going be common and spread to other squads, it's  going to ruin the hole idea of the game...

Something have to be done about it... Personally i can't help you with ideas on that...im not having any experience how the programming is done, what possibilities there are to counteract that kind of behavior without  drag you into the problem that in the end need to be solved by you as a developer 


 

These insults were not in response to this issue. I have logs insulting them way before this was even an issue. Some players here just dislike the others and I'm not going to get into a fight about who started what.

I already said it is not right and I am asking, yet again, for feedback on how to solve this. 

Just an idea, i know some games does this. Add the option to click on a player and add a +1 for "great teacher", "valuable player",... (you can only give one +1/item/player) or add a MVP at end of game (with reward?). Or see in your profile how many reports you have from different players so you know you have bad reputation and have to behave more. Idk if this can help?

And for me this is just a game with lot of great players (and friends). But i play to get away from all frustration in real life and to have some fun, i think a game is not place to search more frustrations, isnt there enough misery in the world already? Ok i get sometimes it can be annoying if someone doesnt play by the "rules" but try to get some motivation in it to shoot him down in place of adding more fire in it so it escalate. If you see bad language just report it and get over it.
Basicly: try ignore "dirty" players, get motivation out of it, shoot him down AND most importantly: keep having fun!

See you in the air
 
 

That's actually not a bad idea Mysterio. Many do the right thing and help others in the game or support team. Zup if you can see the reports you'll know those players who are false reporting and those who need to be muted or banned. Or cussing, I might add. 

Check your log or what ever you have to do I haven t insult anyone you keep not getting it its about cheating like I said if you you you don't do anything nothing will change could it be possible they are your buddy's because I don't see them defending them self unless your incontact with and we are not seeing what they are telling that you must be buying there story because they should be letting us know why top three guys chose to cheat as if there bullying and being at the top wasn't enough just saying

It looks like the same people always complaining about something or someone. This thread should have never happened.
This is a freekin Game, Enjoy IT !!, as most do.
Or leave. It is that simple!
Someone will always take your place, Rember you're not that important!
Have a wonderful day and ignore the haters.

Zup thanks for this FUN game you have created for us to Enjoy!

First…I believe this issue has already been resolved as posted in another thread by DEZZ NUTZ the leader of the squadron that brought light to the “problem”.  So, I think we should all get pass this already.
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. .If you want to further evaluate the problem, we should just answer the questions that zuperman is asking to try and help, find a better solution. To keep bickering about this and that who said this and who started that will only show more and more that this are only personal problems between a few players.
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 .Fist question…how can we check automatically when someone is giving a “pass” to the enemy? Or just missing them and the enemy was able to go through? It is impossible to do. How will the system or for that matter you personally playing in games could go inside the mindset of a particular player to determine is he gave a pass to another player? Yes, you saw it happened, but why did he do it?? He is my pal, I’m afraid of engaging him, I was eating a sandwich, my phone drop to the floor. Ext. ext. ext. you just can’t tell and that is just with one player in one game how will you be able to tell between all the players in multiple games?
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.An automatic system? Ah yes! And how will the system figure out the difference between giving my friend a pass or I just did not see him, or I decided to fly high up and sneak therefore letting everyone pass under me and they all let me pass without shooting at me when I am way up. Or if I am just texting, talking, or trying to help a new player in an empty game and do not shoot at him because in teaching him about the game. What then? Will the system figure that out? I can give more crazy examples that can go on and the result is the system can’t read minds. If there were a deduction of points for planes that pass close to each other and do not shoot or aim at each other and do not take the shoot the system still would deduct points unfairly if my intention in not shooting at a particular player was by accident or something else rather that hey, I like you. 
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 In my personal view the problem is not a huge issue and like zuperman stated if you know or identify that a player will not engage someone in game no matter the reason, friendship, or if skill wise, he is not equipped to handle that player, then you as a team should ask someone with better skills to take him on. If games are between just 2 players, and it is too hard to do…Don’t have a Cow; this does not happen all the time and yes, we all experience out number games every day and, in those games, the least of my worries is who gives a pass; you just go to survival mode and try make the best of it. Using the example given of the football player that lets a player pass to make a touchdown, well if you as a coach encounter this situation in a game you should select a stronger player to take care of that hole; you adapt and plan to make up for that situation.  As a hunter if you go to shoot deer and one of your teammates will not take the shoot because he likes Bambi’s mom? What will you do? Well, another one must step up and take the shoot. Done dead Bambi’s mom. In conclusion, I see no way that the system can do this without new problems surfacing and impossible for you zuperman to moderate it. Like I stated the problem as brought by Dezz Nutz has been resolved.
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. Question 2… Is that cheating? No, it is not. If I am outnumber in a game, I will have to give way to someone as I can’t kill everyone at the same time. So how will system determine if I just gave a pass because he is a friend? Or was it because I had to go against the others at play? Or was it because I chose to go against the weakest because that particular one would be hard to kill?
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. Question 3… What should be the punishment for doing such thing? If you team kill or bomb your own hangers, you lose how many points?? And that is way worst. So maybe something in those lines. Bomb own hangers could be considering the same thing as giving a pass, so that amount of point you lose.
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. Question 4….and lastly, how big of a problem is it? Does it ruin the game often or is it only a couple of players doing this, and the impact is not large?  Problem has been resolved and it was not a big problem, proof of that is that by just talking the issue at hand was resolved; yes, I might never be perfect but it not a big problem across every single game. As the original post that brought the issue states the problem was happening late at night when there were just 4 or 2 players online. Yes, we are a small community but in large not all have experienced this problem. If it happens in the pick hours of game play, I have not notice it as something that merits the disproportion attention it has gotten. Asking to ban players for giving a pass, not a proportional offence. If we start to nitpick the things, we see people do in games that we consider inappropriate you would be left with less than a handful of players and zero subscribers.
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 My opinion as to the root of the problem is the points war list should be the one to go. The few months it was shut down we saw how new players were joining the game and the insults, hate and fighting tone down. As soon as you implemented it back the same problems as the last time are resurfacing and believe me there will be more. The points lists should be eliminated, that would bring back the peace we enjoy a few months back. But that is just my opinion. My advice is DO NOT LET A GAME RUIN A FRIENDSHIP..
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..OWL..{WP*} wrote:

Check your log or what ever you have to do I haven t insult anyone you keep not getting it its about cheating like I said if you you you don't do anything nothing will change could it be possible they are your buddy's because I don't see them defending them self unless your incontact with and we are not seeing what they are telling that you must be buying there story because they should be letting us know why top three guys chose to cheat as if there bullying and being at the top wasn't enough just saying

Yeah and I go for drinks daily with them too. They went to my wedding as best men too. That’s why I know they don’t speak English and they would hardly interact in the forum. Any more ridiculous statements?

 Obviously you are aiming for a reaction and you are going to have it. I was very clear that I want to help but if you don’t cooperate, you are just forcing my hand.

The same goes for everybody. I’ve just saw logs from today after this conversation and some of you still keep insulting people in game. I will begin banning people who keeps insulting others after I was very clear here, there is simply no excuse. It is sad that I have to arrive to this point but it is obvious some do not listen to reason.

1. I'm catching heat from people like I did something wrong if you want to ban for speaking up go ahead I know I play fair and that's all if telling the truth gets you in a jam check your logs I don't bother anyone I was the victim not the victor ill say no more it is what it is that's my opinion just saying

Noooooooooo Nutz, I do not punish my children in kindergarten I talk to them, and we resolve the problem by talking and they do understand which as we often see it is a bit harder for adults to do. If we were to punish children like the suggestions some are giving here it would be a crime, to ban a child from school because he is misbehaving it’s a bit extreme. Same principal applies to this situation the misbehaving accusations do not merit a ban; sounds too extreme. The best way to resolve any situation of conflict or misunderstanding is the way you handle it.  By talking to resolve a situation is the best way to fix problems and once the problem is work out you move on.
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 As for chicken little I have never seen him in games giving passes or playing dirty. The accusations of free passes are not new to this squadron wars, or the last one. You posted that zuperman had address this before. This is looking like something that is being blown out of proportion because it was not a mayor problem that was happening in every single game, and you stated that you had to go on a nube account to detected. The moment that you detected the problem was late at night when there are hardly any players online, and that is when I have seen it happened and done it myself. The reasons I have mention in other post because some of us players in the community take those empty games to relax, talk, dance, goof around, explore or teach and help new player. Never saw it as a way to help someone get points. Besides to have these new players go against WW2 top planes sounds more concerning than giving them a pass or not shooting at them. More abusing sounds to shoot at new players over and over when they are flying a less superior plane, so we let them shoot at themselves and help them with tips.
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.The title Kite gave his post was dead on, squadrons war brings out the worst in players and all the post reflect a toxic and stressful environment that in my view is created by the top squadron list of the squad wars.  When squadrons war list was removed, the fighting and toxic environment was over, people were playing, and new players were arriving. Once the list was back on you can see all the post that have surface related to banning the top players. This looks personal and I know you can see there are other intentions behind this because the punishment they are calling for is not in proportion with what they might be doing and the frequency.  If I bomb my own hangers, do I get removed from the game forever? Nop.  And is the way to get to the top is by disqualifying and slandering the top players so that I can get to the top myself the right way?  This personal grudge will get worst just wait a few days, already seen that some retaliations are being coordinated; nothing new it has been done to me and others in the past.  That not only ruins a game here and there it ruins the community and scares new subscribers.  New players read the reviews or post of game forum before subscribing and if they see that the community is a toxic one, they just walk away.
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. When I say that squadron wars should be eliminated, I am referring to the list on forum, not the concept of squadron wars game play. But that is just my opinion; it is zupermans game and he has work hard for years to make this mode of gaming possible, so those decisions are his to make and we should all learn to respect them. The squadron wars list on forum somehow makes the adults misbehave and brings out frustrations. Others are just trying to get a lift with the situation to settle old grudges.
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.Zuperman ask to answer 4 questions to help him figure out a way to address your concerns and so far, I have not seen people answering them. Suggestions are good and very important but the fed back to what your concerns are its best covered if you go thru all this questions. "Con la boca es un mamey", a saying here in the island, with your mouth it is easy. But if you try and give thought to what zuperman is asking you will see it’s not that easy to resolve or find answers.
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.Nutz, you manage to resolve the problem the right way by talking so that is it.  Time to let it go and keep enjoying the game as best as possible.
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 Owl my dear friend! The problem has been resolved by Nutz, its time to let it go and keep enjoying the game as best as possible.

Yes, i saw chickenlittle aka Firebird gave and received free passers from his friends before the squad wars be enabled. But isn’t the case. Players given and receive free passers of their friends had Always existed at this game. I don't think removing the squad list rank will solve something, since people are focused to rank up to 52, They are playing around 20 hours in a day to be on level 52 first than anybody else lol They own adimited it. They are very focused.... Anyways thats isn’t the problem too. The own sytem allow it ... does not exist difference between personal classifcation and squad rank. They are the same. So why no remove the list of top players too!?  Lol I like the squad wars in my opinion it shouldn’t be removed but yes adjusted.. I hope you guys understood and understand what im meaning at my posts here of two months ago: www.dogfightelite.com/index.php/forum/3-...g-squad-wars?start=0
I suggested to make it in a way where all squads that is interested in compete, can also have a chance, not only who is playing for hours . I read zup was doing some new stuff for the system of sq wars, i dont know if he wil stil do it.....
About Owl, I was in one of these games with him and them. They was in as Dogfight mission it suppose to be all x all. When i joined the game i saw them gang up against Owl. So I ask, is fun being hunted in a DF mission by 2 or 3 players, where it supposed to be allx all? Of course Owl loose his cool..... They also do the same against me, I don't care, but it doesn’t mean that other players also don’t care about.
I dont think make it automatic with some sort of system to punish passers will solve it. It will deppends of each player and their ethic, then making it subjective. Unfortunately is that.
Btw, maybe im wrong, but I remember that before the words was more heavy towards who was given the free passers, but now the speech got Much more smooth than before lol. For sure its me with my bad understanding of the english language.

Owl hold you head up bro you did nothing wrong calling a spade a spade its black and white in the game im mean red and blue lol

Yeah I’m working in a better squad wars system. Not easy task. I think from the changes in the last few months you can see that I listen to everyone and try to implement as much as possible and as fast as possible.
I have delays these days due to personal matters and also because I have to prioritize the reports. We were getting tons of random crashes and I had to handle those first before adding anything new.

Its not just squad wars that causes the problem unfortunately. I have seen more than once people giving passes when squad wars wasn't even going on. Not that anyone wants my opinion, but I have been opposed to giving passes to any player because, in my opinion, it is a selfish way to play the game. Why selfish? First of all you give passes to players to get passes, so its beneficial to someone to give an equal or better player a pass to avoid a death. Secondly, its selfish to all the other blue players on your team, not shooting at oncoming red players leaving the folks behind you to deal with them alone, without your help.

People say well they are friends, or I respect them so I give them a pass. So what? Will they no longer be friends or will you lose respect for them if you actually play against them? I just do not understand that reasoning. Some of the best games of my life, not only video games but actual games of football, baseball, basketball, etc. have been while playing with friends and against friends. Isn't that the case with everyone here? When the game ends, win or lose, nobody loses respect or friends because they were on the opposing team.

I am certain if there was a way to punish or penalize folks who give red players passes Zup would have already implemented it. My way to punish them is to simply not play the game when folks are giving passes. Its kind of no fun to play a game where your team isn't helping the whole team. I would think I am not the only one who leaves because of that in game behavior. Cussing, name calling, bullying, etc. will never work because most folks who give passes think they are doing nothing wrong and will continue to play that way regardless of what anyone thinks or says.

So, not that anyone really cares what I think because I seldom play anymore, but that is my opinion on the matter.

Zup, I really do hope you figure a way to deal with this and end all the arguing, complaining, and name calling that goes along with it. Back in the day you could just change servers and avoid all the baloney but that is no longer an option sadly.

Maybe Vanessa is right and there should be a server exclusively for folks who are pushing to rank up, like a competitive player server, and one for folks who just want to play, chat, laugh, have fun, shoot some reds, go find the fox, dragon, town, tunnels, elephant, disco, or even the gorilla climbing the building holding the blonde woman. That would separate the point chasers from the leisure players at least.

well said viper much respect

well many many times i have entered a game with dusty or frits and one is sat on the runway while the other bombs or Brings the zep or bomber down they know its better points if there is a opposing red in the game i just leave the games as it ruins it . Even though they are just padding the points by having a red there!  Even von kilner admits to doing the deed and has no remorse or punishment
for letting people pass .seems unfair really i play a straight game and no one can say i ever cheated or pulled a glitch to gain advantage .im banned for a month but i dont think ill be playing again. Its been a fun time for ten years i have played and a  few bad apples always spoil the barrel .ive been called names in the past and nothing was done about it so now i just ignore it .But seems some take pride in reporting people and trying to get them banned .

and now I am being accused LOL. You are a joke.
I play the game as intended and have for many years.

chickenlittle wrote:

yep never seen you let no one pass chicken always have good games with you maybe your being tarred with the same brush because your in the same squad-chickenlittle post=386655 userid=48662

and now I am being accused LOL. You are a joke.
I play the game as intended and have for many years.

Hello, my dear friend Nutzz, in any way I am looking to start a quarrel with you, we have been friends for a long time and like I have stated I put friendship first over a silly computer game. I was simply answering a question that you ask me in your last post, I am not looking to extend anything I was simply stating what happened during the game where you entered using your nube account. The way I see things that is my point or view or my perspective and that is my truth if you have another perspective or view of what you saw or recorded that is yours and I respect it. Thant is your truth and mine is mine.
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.  I also stated very clear that during the games I have played with chicken little I have never seen him doing that, my personal experience playing with him just like dognammit states in his post. If he has done that in other games, I have not seen it or bean present. Just as I have witnessed many other players do the pass thing and other worst things in the past and in resent games. To me its not such a big issue as it is being portrayed, I have said nothing, and I could mention lots of names that include players from all squadrons but like I told you don’t care for it as I do not see it in my PERSONAL view as that big of a deal or as a constant in all games.
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.The harvesting points things is another issue now and one that totally confuses me because if I hear you right you are opposed that a player spends to many hours playing. If he or she is gaining points that is your perspective, but not mine. You cannot dictate how many hours I want to play and is I go for end-to-end bombing or looking for King Kong in the game. That is my prerogative and any players prerogative, if you see it as they are harvesting points in empty games, what is the problem with that. So, I’m supposed to leave or not play if there is no one online playing? If I chose not to shoot at noobs because I feel my plane is superior to them or notice they are still learning the game that is my personal option not to engage them. Sometimes I let new players shoot me down on purpose to help them with their aim and collect points or coins. Is that bad too??  That night @ 3 or 2 am my local time the only noobs were you as I came to know days after. I offered you help and tips thinking you were a new player as I often do with new players.  In the past zuperman have seen me playing alone in sink the ship games where I take the tank from my base all the way to the other side of the map just to sink the ship. He asks me wow what are you doing? Why not use the plane? Well, I told him having fun entertaining myself. Is that wrong?? Am I harvesting points, to you and others might be a yes, but to me is a NO I am playing to entreating my self that is why we pay for the game or downloaded. So, if I decide to go on bombing runs because I like that type of mission over and over all night long that is my prerogative.
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  The Fritz, Dusty and you issue is what I was trying to salvage, I know you were friends before all this happened and I was just simply trying to give you advice on the situation, which you manage to handle via PM with them like I recommended you do. I believe its best to try and resolve issues that was because you can reach better understandings without the back and forth that have occurred in all this post that usually fuel discord.  I know you can shoot down excuses as so can I, and we could be posting back and forth for a lifetime, I love a nice a respectful conversation, but I also understand we are human and we all have different perspective of viewing things, so if I tell you my truth and you see it as an excuse I understand. If you tell your truth and I see it as an excuse, then you must live with that also. I think we should all move one from this because you already resolved it in a satisfactory way.
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. As for Owl he is a very dear friend, and I am not aware of what happened to him, and I had nothing to do with him getting muted or ban. Do not understand why you would think I had something to do with that. My initial answer in the early post as to my students I told you no I do not punish them I talk to them and we resolved our issues by talking in a respectful way; just as all this situation should had been handled in the firsts place, but like I told you adults are harder to understand.  What Owl did or said is a shock to me because I do not know him to be this way. He has been nothing but respectful to me and a good friend. I had nothing to do with what happened to him.
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.  Hey people we all…ok let me rephrase that;  most of us have done plenty of questionable things here in game, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” More than plenty have harvest points to get to were they are at one point or another ,goof around in games, given passes, insult, harass, block games, team kill, bomb your own hangers, shoot a few rounds to your team mate so that he gets killed faster, use a second account to help your friends gain points buy shooting at it, use trick’s to lag or disappeared in midair, sit on the runway not playing, going over the mountain to sit there and not play, crash before getting shoot down, log out of the game to not get shoot down, camp, abuse, play with the dragon,  air circus or dance the night away; I could go on and on.  Yes, we have straight arrows that might never have done that I salute you and much respect.
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.I am not looking to lose your friendship; I am just trying to keep friends from fighting over a game. If the situation could be resolve by talking why not try that first, and you did so why keep dragging it? Zuperman ask for input by asking 4 questions; we can help him with that but at the same time we should all understand that the problem was resolved, and we all should move on and enjoy the game.
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. I am happy that the situation got resolved and I understand it might not be perfect, but we should all try to put all this behind us and move on with the game without jeopardizing friendships.  Other situation will happen, and I hope we could solve them by talking to each other in a respectful and understanding way. Forgive and forget.
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. Maybe I should not say anything, and just play when I can; if I am doing something wrong let zuperman act.  
Take care Nutzz and everyone.
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Ooops I am truly sorry what I meant to say in that first sentence was “ I am NOT looking to start a quarrel with you”. I am so sorry for the misunderstanding my friend. I believe I can still call you a friend.  Must have been the spell check or as you know I lost all the feeling on my fingers, so I must rely on the spell check to fix most of my post now.  If you follow the sentence and the last paragraph of my post, I mention over and over I value friendships over a game and that I am not looking to lose your friendship. So please bear with me for my typing mistake and I am sorry if it causes you the wrong idea and got you upset. I posted and reached out to you because I believe friendships should come first and communication can solve any problem as you just did with this situation.  I am sorry I for getting involved and posting not my intention to irritate you or others.  Again, I am sorry for the typing mistake I will delete all my post as I believe you are right, I should have not got involved, this was a post created by you that was meant for zupermans opinion and not mine.  Truly sorry for the typing mistake please forgive me.