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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367701

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Ok everyone is saying that it was the ww1 planes that got you hooked .
But only the older players will rember what the elders had done for this game .
When i started we had mods .these were some of the oldest players in df they devoted their personal time to a game
The elders had made their own code and rules to play by .camping for points only was looked at as an A hole move and never done by anyone if it was it was reported ad dealt with by a warning next step was a temp ban of a day or two .then a permanent ban was issued it it was a constant problem .
Now the same thing was done for foul and abusive language .
But the elders had class many times as a noob i found myslef out numberd usually alone ..they had the common courtesy of not camping and spawn killing because they knew they had me beat . but they gave me every chance to defend my base knowing it was only amatter of time before they win .not one time as a noob did anyone of them think to sneak on an outnumbered team epically 3 or 4 on one .like i said they has class.

But now what i see in games are some piss poor tacits 4 guys cant get past 1 so they drop and sneak .they camp only to spawn kill even when non of their team is close to the base .these are the same people that used to get banned and would run crying to zup i wont do it again i promise .then when banned again and zup would say no more they would threaten him with legal action .and flood his e mail with b.s. zup had no choice but to cave in to them .
Basicly what im saying is zup needs bring the game back to ww1 and start ban ig the guys that have destroyed the game for their own personal enjoment only to get points
But its up to the players to make their own rules of what the game should be .
Bombing missions should be for bomber players only there are to many that drop in bombing missions to even call the bombing missinons any more .gratned their are many that still belive in what the mission is but not enough anymore
I konw zup removed the mods due to legal issues but they hit accept on the rules zup please reinstate the you have to accept the rules again and bring the mods back .
Or at the very least make some rules for the game because the whole play as you want thing is really what brought the one great game of df to the point it is now


Sorry i just had to have a rant and get that out
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367702

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I can safely say this one game.out of i dont know how many wqs the only game where the players themselves based their play on honor .
Many say thats not how they flew and i agree to a point .
The news made them to be heros of the skies and so many pilots did acts of bravery .pilots back then had respect for each other .and that is what the elders agreed upon .and that is how they conducted themselves in the game .they flew with honor .they built a game along with zup like no other .it wasnt just ww1 planes it was a game where a noob with some guts earned respect and that was how it was..
Now noobs have very little chance the game has become so point driven with the outrageous poi ts to rank up its not even fun .
And with the points system the way it is people are going to lose any grasp of honor what so ever.
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367710

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Darraxx you have said it more in in a sentence or two then I could have said in a whole book. There is no honor in the new players coming up and think this is the way it soppose to be to get points and to level up. I agree with you a thousand percent my friend the old players played with honor and played the game well. I don’t know if I am an older player but the players who tought me how to play and gave me tips on playing showed me how to play and that’s what I love about this game I just wish it was the good old days when you played with HONOR
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367711

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Brother one we may not be elders but we paid our dues . i always got a kick from players that tried to demand respesct they always ended up resorting to cheap azz playing and tried to make themselves feel like they actually did something good for the game .all they ended up doing was bring the game to the state it is now .
But dont tell them that .
It sad so very sad .that people have to trash something so great so they can imagine themselves as good .
But (and i hope your listening) it is also zups fault for staying with play as you want . when so many people tried so hard to make the game what it was . sorry to say zup but it hurt when you failed to realize what they did for your game and the masses of people they attracted to your game ..you may have created the great game of df .but it was the eleders that built it for you .
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367716

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darraxx wrote: But (and i hope your listening) it is also zups fault for staying with play as you want . when so many people tried so hard to make the game what it was . sorry to say zup but it hurt when you failed to realize what they did for your game and the masses of people they attracted to your game ..you may have created the great game of df .but it was the eleders that built it for you."

Yes we did.

How many trained squads of 100's? Recruited the best and kicked out the mouthy ones.

I long ago lost track of how many left this game. I played for years and was not done playing. But this game left us all...with a bunch of flowers.

I like WWI.....ONLY.

Oh, and I think my last penny spent on this game was a bad penny. It turns no luck! B)
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367727

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darraxx wrote: Brother one we may not be elders but we paid our dues . i always got a kick from players that tried to demand respesct they always ended up resorting to cheap azz playing and tried to make themselves feel like they actually did something good for the game .all they ended up doing was bring the game to the state it is now .
But dont tell them that .
It sad so very sad .that people have to trash something so great so they can imagine themselves as good .
But (and i hope your listening) it is also zups fault for staying with play as you want . when so many people tried so hard to make the game what it was . sorry to say zup but it hurt when you failed to realize what they did for your game and the masses of people they attracted to your game ..you may have created the great game of df .but it was the eleders that built it for you .

Another way Zup has done this is by increasing the power gap by making relatively low level players in sodding biplanes fight potentially 262s and spits.I personally think that this game would be much better with some sort of tiering system based on both in-game level and the plane your.flying. Maybe give players the ability to pick their plane before entering a game? Anyway what I was saying, Sup has brought this upon his game by giving all players the ability to fight aircraft that outclass them in every single way...
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367760

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Airborne Kiwi {WP} wrote:

darraxx wrote: Brother one we may not be elders but we paid our dues . i always got a kick from players that tried to demand respesct they always ended up resorting to cheap azz playing and tried to make themselves feel like they actually did something good for the game .all they ended up doing was bring the game to the state it is now .
But dont tell them that .
It sad so very sad .that people have to trash something so great so they can imagine themselves as good .
But (and i hope your listening) it is also zups fault for staying with play as you want . when so many people tried so hard to make the game what it was . sorry to say zup but it hurt when you failed to realize what they did for your game and the masses of people they attracted to your game ..you may have created the great game of df .but it was the eleders that built it for you .

Another way Zup has done this is by increasing the power gap by making relatively low level players in sodding biplanes fight potentially 262s and spits.I personally think that this game would be much better with some sort of tiering system based on both in-game level and the plane your.flying. Maybe give players the ability to pick their plane before entering a game? Anyway what I was saying, Sup has brought this upon his game by giving all players the ability to fight aircraft that outclass them in every single way...

]

That is what most other games do.. make players in machines no more than 1 or 2 tiers lower or higher fight each other..
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367770

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sounds like someone would like new people to spend $ on faster better planes, just sayin!
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367771

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SCAMPERS REVENGE wrote: sounds like someone would like new people to spend $ on faster better planes, just sayin!

First the game has to be worth spending money on . as it is now the only reason to spend money is so people can go tearazzing around in a jet .and that shows just what kind of players are left where is the fun if your plane cant be touched by anyone in the game .are these people that needy for points are they afraid they might get shot down and damage their pressious kdr witch has absolutely nothing to do with ranks and points .
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367796

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ZebraUp wrote:

Airborne Kiwi {WP} wrote:

darraxx wrote: Brother one we may not be elders but we paid our dues . i always got a kick from players that tried to demand respesct they always ended up resorting to cheap azz playing and tried to make themselves feel like they actually did something good for the game .all they ended up doing was bring the game to the state it is now .
But dont tell them that .
It sad so very sad .that people have to trash something so great so they can imagine themselves as good .
But (and i hope your listening) it is also zups fault for staying with play as you want . when so many people tried so hard to make the game what it was . sorry to say zup but it hurt when you failed to realize what they did for your game and the masses of people they attracted to your game ..you may have created the great game of df .but it was the eleders that built it for you .

Another way Zup has done this is by increasing the power gap by making relatively low level players in sodding biplanes fight potentially 262s and spits.I personally think that this game would be much better with some sort of tiering system based on both in-game level and the plane your.flying. Maybe give players the ability to pick their plane before entering a game? Anyway what I was saying, Sup has brought this upon his game by giving all players the ability to fight aircraft that outclass them in every single way...

]

That is what most other games do.. make players in machines no more than 1 or 2 tiers lower or higher fight each other..


I have been spending all my gaming time in a game that does that.... one tier either way are matched up regardless of the players level. Makes for some really fun games because they are evenly matched and strategy is everything.

I will say I am itching to play this game again and will as soon as it reverts back to splitting ww1 and 2. This is more like a fantasy game now and I am just not into fantasy games.








United We Prowl/Together We Howl
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367802

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SCAMPERS REVENGE wrote: sounds like someone would like new people to spend $ on faster better planes, just sayin!

yes must be because i have been playing other games and they ask for players input because one mans vistion may not be correct just saying
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367803

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Had suggested the tiered plane thing a couple of years back after playing world of tank Blitz.
At the time it seemed like a good suggestion given all the issues with the game.
I recently thought about it some more so I posted it to World Chat.



Hatching, Matching and Dispatching!
Spawn into a game, Match players based on tiered plane selection, and lastly launch the match so we can kill those reds
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367806

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Bingo wrote: Had suggested the tiered plane thing a couple of years back after playing world of tank Blitz.
At the time it seemed like a good suggestion given all the issues with the game.
I recently thought about it some more so I posted it to World Chat.



Hatching, Matching and Dispatching!
Spawn into a game, Match players based on tiered plane selection, and lastly launch the match so we can kill those reds

Wouldnt that just make empty games ? I get it but dont get it lol the problem is so many player have quit because of the changes made to the game. None of the changes have worked it seems . There is always the opp to drop back and punt . (Put the game back to what made it great )
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367810

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[M]LtDan nhouse wrote:

Bingo wrote: Had suggested the tiered plane thing a couple of years back after playing world of tank Blitz.
At the time it seemed like a good suggestion given all the issues with the game.
I recently thought about it some more so I posted it to World Chat.




Hatching, Matching and Dispatching!
Spawn into a game, Match players based on tiered plane selection, and lastly launch the match so we can kill those reds

Wouldnt that just make empty games ? I get it but dont get it lol the problem is so many player have quit because of the changes made to the game. None of the changes have worked it seems . There is always the opp to drop back and punt . (Put the game back to what made it great )


Exactly put it all back the way it was ..add a couole of simple rules bombing missions are for bomb players not a dog fight ..
Bring back the report button and give a select few limited mod powers like mute and temp bans .
But most importantly the players themselves hqve to change the game having even a little honor isn't going to kill anyone .
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367815

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Holy Moly Dan i don't play other games but having input here usually falls on deaf ears or if its too close to the bone can get you banned

[M]LtDan nhouse wrote:

SCAMPERS REVENGE wrote: sounds like someone would like new people to spend $ on faster better planes, just sayin!

yes must be because i have been playing other games and they ask for players input because one mans vistion may not be correct just saying

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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367816

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IF ZUPERMAN WERE TO PUT THE GAME BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS (choose your time) HE WOULD BE CONSTANTLY LOSING MONEY.

The game was never a financial success. While it was originally growing he managed to get support from Microsoft in the form of free and discounted servers, those are no longer available and the game did not grow to be self sustaining at any point. Wax poetic all you want about how great it WAS, Zup probably won't want to go back to a game version that didn't work before.

The best chance may be for him to end the game as-is entirely, then bring back a simple version with only a few planes, make subscriptions free and make upgrades cheap but temporary so there is a voluntary revenue stream, make the leader board so points expire after 90 days so new players can feel like they may be able to accomplish some rank and standing. Make it simple with the only rules automatically enforced, level the playing field by making it so you can't play with devices that can't handle all of the features, make it so there are no entitlements so no one can feel like they should have more say over how the game should be played than anyone else and ban IP addresses of abusive players.

It could actually be fun again.
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367820

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McFate,

That's some interesting information. I agree it's not ever returning to the original model of WWI---and that is exactly when it was growing in numbers.

NLR Blue fighter's weekly numbers of squads tells the story. Compare a year ago to how many in squads were gunning away earning points versus the dwindling numbers of this year. That's leaving OUT the numbers who left when DF Elite was released.

This statement is interesting "While it was originally growing he managed to get support from Microsoft ". If you're model is growing don't change it--keep it simple. Create stable game play, achievable goals and monitor abuse with 2 strikes you're out IP ban. I note you suggest this simple model now...personally think it's too late.

I disagree it was not a great game. It WAS when I started years ago. It was unique and with active forums, many squads, chat in game and world chat. Hard to find, as I've tried with games I play now. Did it have issues...yep. But as you wrote 'make it simple' and it would have continued to grow. Not waxing poetic here, as I write in past tense. I get what happened.
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367822

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Hi Dire,

I'm not so much saying that making it simple will make it grow, just that it will make it sustainable and stable. Zup had a great and ambitious vision but several things didn't work out the way he hoped. It really seemed to take a lot of wind out of his sails when the kickstarter campaign failed. He really thought there was enough support to make it happen. Elite would have been launched with the support needed to make it run smoothly. After that he dropped the development team and did everything solo. I can only imagine how many hours he put in trying to pull it all together.

After that I think the biggest problem was trying to mix all of the different platforms. Before that it seemed that everyone was on a much more even playing field, once PCs were introduced there was no predictability of performance. Still, the game grew at the fastest rate when PCs were introduced partly because there were so many new people who had access but also because Zup was doing a lot of promoting. He even offered Fokker D8s for bringing in friends!


The subscription thing was always a problem. Paying one price for permanent access would only have worked with constant growth. It also made legal issues for kicking subscribers, for having in-game mods, for changing the game after purchase, etc. It also reduced the number of players overall just because so many either wouldn't or couldn't pay. I've always thought he should charge only for premium planes and paints and let them expire after a month or so. That would provide income without discouraging players. He also could have used premium items as promotions and rewards but I think having it so all the old players have all of the best equipment discourages new players.

DF has run its course. Unless a big investor comes along and hires a new team, Zup needs to make it easier for himself to manage. Unless a miracle happens the only sustainable solution is probably a simple version that doesn't use all his spare time and doesn't need expensive premium servers. Having no subscription fees could prevent many legal issues, fewer platforms would simplify the maintenance.

This is just what it looks like to me. I don't have any more access to info than any other player, I've just been around a while and read most of Zup's posts about game development on the forum.

Haven't played in months. I may play again someday. For now the thrill is gone. :(
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367823

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McFate wrote: Haven't played in months. I may play again someday. For now the thrill is gone. :("

Know that feeling, Sir McFate. Cheers, bro!
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367859

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There is no honor no more i just entered a game and it was 4 players against one guy. once upon a time someone would have swapped to help the lone player bunch of cowards playing for points rather than the fun of a challenge
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367867

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There is still moderation. I devote what little spare time that I have to this game. I may not have time to check the forum as often as I would like but I do try to monitor my mails a bit more. Any reports on the forum are sent to me and I have been away for a bit but trying to monitor them more closely.
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367868

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While I was unemployed I was on here multiple times throughout the day. I could keep doing that but I don't think that I would remain employed for long if I did.
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367873

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[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: While I was unemployed I was on here multiple times throughout the day. I could keep doing that but I don't think that I would remain employed for long if I did.


Dont quit your day job just yet. Hold out for your company car first.



Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or an idiot from any direction
(.Y.)
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Once there was honor 6 years 4 months ago #367881

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Exactly lol

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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368173

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No honor ! is there this dirt bag Wolverine joins a decent game then sneaks with a 5x3 advantage some will do anything to win honor has gone out the window and hes Moraf of a squad and tip my hat to luke/redwasp/dracos who didnt deserve to loose in such a manner
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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368263

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Muy bien explicado mi buen amigo conejo ,joacob dog.es cierto no hay control solo insultos y gente que se esconde con diferentes nick para que no los descubran ,y hacer muchos de las suyas,Joaquín ya no lo veo tan encima y se crea un descontrol .Muchos pagamos y compramos,este juego necesita personas administrando.Espero que Joaquín tome nota de estos tipos.Qué para mí sinceramente deberían estar fuera del juego.Pero muchos sucios de esos seguramente son abonados.Joaquín debería sin duda poner algunas reglas inquebrantables,eso sí luego son los jogadores honorables las que las deben de crear y sobre todo de todos nosotros los veteranos para preservar el juego ,mantenerlo y hacerlo mejor.Eso también debe ser nuestro trabajo de alguna manera.
Un abrazo amigos.
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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368266

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Umm ????

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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368327

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Dognamitt wrote: No honor ! is there this dirt bag Wolverine joins a decent game then sneaks with a 5x3 advantage some will do anything to win honor has gone out the window and hes Moraf of a squad and tip my hat to luke/redwasp/dracos who didnt deserve to loose in such a manner


I am generally considered one of the bad guys here because of my opinion but are not the matches where you are extremely outnumbered and your enemy is trying every single thing to win (Sneaking, dropping, running spreads), the matches where people learn to destroy everything. Sometimes you need to be baptized in the fire. I am not condoning spawn killing (as in spawn killing just for points or for the fun of it) or trash talk. Both are a blemish. Sneaking, drooping, and camping (that is for a short time to get a close bomber in or to distract your foe from something else) I will condone. There is nothing dishonorable about them. As situations change it is only logical for actions to change. Sometimes you end up in a good strong position and other times you end up in a weak position. There is no reason to hold to one single tactic. Yes it seems honorable to continue doing the down the middle bombs strapped strategy all the day long but it really is ridicules. Give props and respect for the pilot that can hold off a horde of people doing that but there is greater respect for a pilot who can handle those who go down the middle bombs strapped and also handle the droppers and sneakers. There is a doable strategy for that as well. It all comes to rhythm and a very aware mind. There is honor in playing a good hard game and winning because you have the numbers. One the scale of a 1 vs 1 dogfight the tactics may not be honorable but in the scale of a battle there is honor in strategy and counter strategy. Just learn to deal with the different situations. Now as for the WWI aircraft and WWII aircraft situation, I do not know too much of what is going on because I have been gone for a while. It does sound as if they do need to be separated back up. But I do think we should be more careful on what is called honorable and dishonorable. Spawn-killing for points or to pad ones stats is dishonorable. Spawn-killing momentarily as you approach the airfield to bomb and slightly afterward to get one more close plane in, is not dishonorable. Sneaking and dropping is not dishonorable but can either be a good strategy a bad strategy or a good strategy poorly executed. I will point out that if someone is using a strategy and is exciting it poorly or to no benefit to the team and it becomes counter intuitive then they are dishonoring there team and should try something different.
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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368328

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if you notice he was on my side and i agree with you 100% this guy just came into the game never fired one shot sneaked and took the last hangar he also is so low he swaps sides to ace girls team then proceeds to team kill her to a point she now expects it of him

SkyDavis wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: No honor ! is there this dirt bag Wolverine joins a decent game then sneaks with a 5x3 advantage some will do anything to win honor has gone out the window and hes Moraf of a squad and tip my hat to luke/redwasp/dracos who didnt deserve to loose in such a manner


I am generally considered one of the bad guys here because of my opinion but are not the matches where you are extremely outnumbered and your enemy is trying every single thing to win (Sneaking, dropping, running spreads), the matches where people learn to destroy everything. Sometimes you need to be baptized in the fire. I am not condoning spawn killing (as in spawn killing just for points or for the fun of it) or trash talk. Both are a blemish. Sneaking, drooping, and camping (that is for a short time to get a close bomber in or to distract your foe from something else) I will condone. There is nothing dishonorable about them. As situations change it is only logical for actions to change. Sometimes you end up in a good strong position and other times you end up in a weak position. There is no reason to hold to one single tactic. Yes it seems honorable to continue doing the down the middle bombs strapped strategy all the day long but it really is ridicules. Give props and respect for the pilot that can hold off a horde of people doing that but there is greater respect for a pilot who can handle those who go down the middle bombs strapped and also handle the droppers and sneakers. There is a doable strategy for that as well. It all comes to rhythm and a very aware mind. There is honor in playing a good hard game and winning because you have the numbers. One the scale of a 1 vs 1 dogfight the tactics may not be honorable but in the scale of a battle there is honor in strategy and counter strategy. Just learn to deal with the different situations. Now as for the WWI aircraft and WWII aircraft situation, I do not know too much of what is going on because I have been gone for a while. It does sound as if they do need to be separated back up. But I do think we should be more careful on what is called honorable and dishonorable. Spawn-killing for points or to pad ones stats is dishonorable. Spawn-killing momentarily as you approach the airfield to bomb and slightly afterward to get one more close plane in, is not dishonorable. Sneaking and dropping is not dishonorable but can either be a good strategy a bad strategy or a good strategy poorly executed. I will point out that if someone is using a strategy and is exciting it poorly or to no benefit to the team and it becomes counter intuitive then they are dishonoring there team and should try something different.

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Once there was honor 6 years 3 months ago #368386

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You guys talking about elders who had a code.... you're lookin' at him. I remember back liked 8 years ago when I was a big name around here, teaching newbies why we didn't spawnkill and stuff. Now I'm about to play my first game in like 8 years. Maybe we can get that code of honor back in DF culture.
See you in the skies!
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